Leah Segedie on the Fact About PFAS and The way to (Considerably) Keep away from Them

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Katie: Good day, and welcome to the wellness mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s wellness with an E on the top. And I’m right here in the present day with Leah Segedie, who helps girls and mothers make safer client selections for his or her households. And he or she is the writer at mamavation.com. And on this episode, we speak particularly about one thing referred to as PFAS, that are chemical compounds which can be present in all types of family merchandise. We go deep on this in the present day, however we discuss what they’re, why they’re thought-about perpetually chemical compounds, how there are over 10,000 within the surroundings, and the way they have an effect on the physique in a whole lot of other ways. We discuss how testing could be very nuanced, and the way even pure and natural merchandise can have traces of those chemical compounds, the best way to keep away from them with out going loopy and a lot extra, very, very fact-packed episode. I do know I realized rather a lot. I hope you’ll too. So let’s be part of Leah. Leah, welcome again. How are you?

 

Leah: Hey, thanks for having me on Katie, so good to see you once more too. I by no means get to see you.

 

Katie: Likewise, I really like that we do video now. For anyone listening who didn’t know, there’s video on YouTube that you simply guys can truly watch our faces whereas we speak. I feel most individuals nonetheless pay attention on podcast apps, nevertheless it’s enjoyable to get to see your face. Really feel prefer it makes it extra private. And such as you mentioned, it’s been some time since we bought to catch up. And we’re going to get to catch up in-depth on a really explicit challenge. However earlier than we do, I’ve a word in my present notes that you’ve hip dysplasia and are principally a human pretzel. So I might simply love to listen to just a little bit about this story first.

 

Leah: Okay, so there’s a genetic hip situation in my household. I’ve it, my mom has it. We don’t know additional than that as a result of my mom is adopted, nevertheless it’s hip dysplasia. Now, most individuals have heard of hip dysplasia as a result of they’ve a canine. And that canine has hip dysplasia, and it’s just a little wiener canine or one thing. And so the those who have heard about it are like, “Sure, my canine has that.” And no, I’m not a canine. However sure, that illness does occur in people. However there’s two kinds of those who it’s actually widespread in, Native American Cherokee Indian, and the Sami, who’re in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, and so they’re the reindeer individuals. And I completely come from a Nordic, so it’s completely coming from the Sami. And so they have a lot of it, it’s been written up in Nationwide Geographic and stuff, so you possibly can Google it. However principally, what it means is my hips come out of the socket, there’s about this a lot room in my socket that’s simply open. So I can simply pop it out of socket every time I would like.

 

Now, after I’m operating, that’s unhealthy, as a result of it doesn’t really feel good. However the cool factor is, it makes me very limber. For those who can think about me being pregnant, like 9 months pregnant, and with the ability to put my foot again right here after I’m stretching. Like private trainers freak out once they see this proper? And it’s completely cool for me. So I’m very versatile and I could make myself a pretzel by placing each of my ft right here. But when I do it, if I get the second up, I simply go ahead, so the one place I need to do it’s within the mattress. As a result of you already know, I don’t have the…I simply appear like a humorous toy after I do this. However it is extremely attention-grabbing and humorous to speak about. However sure, I can put my ft proper again right here and like a human pretzel. Completely.

 

Katie: That’s humorous. And one among my…

 

Leah: If nobody has identified me then now they’re simply gonna know that I’m Leah Segedie, the human pretzel, which I discover superb.

 

Katie: Properly, and one among my favourite journey recollections of all time was truly visiting northern Finland and getting to fulfill the Sami tribe. They’re among the most fascinating individuals I’ve ever met and completely stunning the way in which their life-style is, very completely different than mine in a really heat local weather. And it was so, so cool to see. In order that’s cool and you’ve got a tie to them as effectively.

 

Leah: Yeah, I’ve a tie them after which…however I’ve extra of my family members that I do know which can be in Sweden, however they’re extra within the metropolis now. And Bergen, Norway too, I’ve a whole lot of family members which can be in Bergen, which is absolutely cool to go to as a result of the fjords are simply superb. It’s important to go there as soon as in your lifetime.

 

Katie: I’ll put it on the checklist. And I really feel like I might discuss that every one day lengthy. However we even have one other necessary subject that I feel might be actually related to lots of people listening, even when they don’t notice it’s going to be so related to them. And I do know that you’ve been doing a brilliant, tremendous, tremendous deep dive into this subject, which is why I used to be so excited to speak to you about them in the present day. So I’d say let’s begin actually, actually broad and simply outline the important thing time period that we’re going to speak rather a lot about in the present day, which is I hope I pronounced it proper, PFAS?

 

Leah: It’s referred to as, you possibly can seek advice from it as PFAS or PFAS. However PFAS might be what you’re going to listen to most individuals say P-F-A-S, so it’s simply an abbreviation and so they’re simply placing it collectively. So primarily, after we’re speaking about PFAS, we’re speaking about over ten thousand chemical compounds and a chemical class. And so they all have fluorine and carbon in them of their bond. However you’ve heard of those chemical compounds as a result of it’s all of the stain-resistant, waterproof, grease-proof chemical compounds that we have now been type of swimming in for many years. Now, these chemical compounds was regarded as secure, you already know, inert, like okay, however within the final couple a long time, we discovered that they’re persistent, which suggests they don’t go away. Scientists don’t even know what the half-life of those chemical compounds are. That’s why they’re known as perpetually chemical compounds. These perpetually chemical compounds can final in your physique for a few years or a long time. They simply actually don’t know the extent of all of it and why as a result of there’s 10,000 of them and the impartial scientists who had been coming within the backend attempting to see in the event that they’re secure, it’s been rather a lot and lot a whole lot of unhealthy information. So in the event you’ve heard about carpet not having PFAS in it anymore, or clothes corporations popping out and, you already know, engaged on PFAS options, or if in case you have thrown out your Teflon cookware, that’s one other instance. These are all examples of PFAS chemical compounds that we have now had in our lives for many years. And now we perceive how extremely problematic they’re.

 

So what I’m doing proper now’s, and thru Mamavation, is absolutely attempting to construct up some consciousness round girls, in order that they know what to search for and know the best way to keep away from them. And the toughest a part of this case is it’s not possible to fully keep away from them. You would need to dwell…you couldn’t even go to, I imply, Iceland, or the place the polar bears are, you’d nonetheless discover them there. So that you actually can’t keep away from them. That’s as a result of they’re persistent, and so they get in every single place. However what we are able to do is we are able to make educated selections and selections in our house, and decrease the quantity that we’re uncovered to, and most of all our kids are uncovered to as a result of that’s the place that is actually, actually necessary is the subsequent era.

 

Katie: Yeah, I do know, we’re very aligned on that, and the significance of, in lots of areas, enhancing issues for our youngsters. What are among the problematic areas we see on the subject of these and well being? I do know, like, we’re nonetheless doing analysis on this and, such as you mentioned, a whole lot of this analysis is simply within the final couple of a long time. However what do we all know so far as how this impacts human well being?

 

Leah: So initially, it’s an androgen mimicker. So it goes into your physique and your physique truly thinks it’s a hormone for males. It thinks it’s testosterone, so it thinks it’s androgen. So for boys, little boys and males, that is worse than for ladies, it’s actually unhealthy for ladies, nevertheless it’s worse for males. So simply give it some thought when it comes to that, you don’t want further testosterone in your physique. However in the event you’re a person, and also you get further testosterone in your physique, your physique says, “Okay, completed, I’ve produced sufficient.” And so for a person, it brings down your testosterone, which is one thing that’s actually unhealthy in the event you’re attempting to have a child, otherwise you’re attempting to breed, you already know. The opposite factor that it does, it’s actually problematic, that’s linked with all the pieces else is it kills your immune system, primarily, it brings down your immunity so that you simply can’t combat off illnesses.

 

Now, right here’s an instance of one thing of how that is taking place. Now, I don’t understand how many individuals are professional or anti-vaccine or no matter. However what I’ll say, and that is very, very, very sound science, that the extra PFAS you might have in your system, the much less possible vaccinations will work inside your physique as a result of it’s bringing down your immune system, your physique simply can’t do it. In order that’s among the stuff that they’re discovering, oh, inside the final three, 4 years is that they’re taking a look at infants, and the way infants reply. And I don’t know in the event that they’ve completed this in adults, however they’ve undoubtedly completed in youngsters. And so they know that the extra you might have in your physique, and bear in mind, this could occur in utero since you’re pregnant, the much less possible you possibly can reply to one thing like a vaccine, or another kind of medicine that’s like that, that’s presupposed to deliver up your immune system. In order that’s one factor you actually need to watch out about.

 

They’re additionally linking it to metabolism points and sort 2 diabetes. In order that they’re linking it to kind 2 diabetes, particularly in girls. So there’s a whole lot of girls strolling round who’re having points and it could have one thing to do with the quantity of PFAS that they’ve of their system. After which, in fact, cancers, there’s a whole lot of cancers that is linked to, like prostate most cancers and people sorts of issues, which is smart in the event you notice it really works like an artificial androgen in your physique. In order that’s type of the totality of it. The issue that we’re actually, actually coping with is, you already know, what’s taking place to us can also be taking place to the earth. It’s persistent on the market, it’s getting within the soil, it’s getting within the groundwater, it’s getting in our client merchandise, it’s getting in all types of issues.

 

And so to be conscious that that is on the market, however not petrified, proper, since you don’t need to stress your self out to the quantity that you simply’re making your self sick, proper? However on this planet of, these are chemical compounds that I need to keep away from, it is a 10, and this is sort of a 3, PFAS is larger up there, it’s extra of an 8, 9, or 10 is what I might take a look at first earlier than you determine some…I don’t know, in the event you’re apprehensive about one thing like sodium benzoate in your shampoo versus PFAS in one thing, don’t even fear in regards to the sodium benzoate. You already know what I imply? Like, these kinds of issues. That’s an even bigger class that you simply simply need to keep away from.

 

Katie: Yeah. So many necessary factors I feel you’ve simply made. And I feel what I might simply spotlight is whether or not individuals are in favor of vaccines or they’re not, I feel that’s its personal separate dialog, however the necessary similarity there may be that in each circumstances, whether or not you’re speaking pure immunity or vaccine immunity, you want a functioning immune system to create that impact. And so I really feel like that’s truly a commonality. It’s really easy for that to turn out to be a polarizing challenge. However in each circumstances, it’s like how can we assist the immune system in pure methods in both of these circumstances, and that’s one thing we are able to truly all agree on. And so it is a piece of that puzzle. I consider a whole lot of similarities like plastic-type chemical compounds, for example, as effectively, these are very problematic, they’ve now saturated the planet, they’re storing in our our bodies, which additionally brings up the query, how if doable in any respect can we get these out of our physique as soon as we’ve been uncovered?

 

Leah: You’ll be able to’t. Properly, right here’s the exhausting factor, it builds up. So it’s a kind of chemical compounds that we don’t have any proof of something with the ability to take it out of our physique. That’s the exhausting half. Proper? And that’s absolutely the reality. If individuals inform you the other, I don’t understand how supported that’s by the info, proper? So that is a kind of distinctive chemical compounds that doesn’t function like different chemical compounds, you already know, a whole lot of these nasty, persistent chemical compounds are trapped in fats. So in the event you can pull it out by means of the fats, then you possibly can pull it out of the physique, that is repelled by fats. So it simply actually operates very otherwise in your physique, and the reply is they simply don’t know.

 

So what the best-case state of affairs is true now’s to keep away from it as a lot as you possibly can, select merchandise that don’t have it, be very cautious of it whenever you’re pregnant, after which when your youngsters are about 5, and so up till that, that’s whenever you’re simply you already know, on the lookout for it, avoiding it. After that, you don’t need it, however in fact, you already know, hormone-disrupting chemical compounds are worse throughout hormone adjustments throughout the physique. So the worst time is prenatal. In order that’s when all the pieces is altering and it right down to the second, the minute, you already know, issues bought to simply align proper. The second half is whenever you’re out and it’s 5 years, you already know, your physique has like pure defenses it builds up doesn’t actually have that till you’re over 5.

 

Now, the third time in your life, for girls particularly, and for males, is whenever you undergo the change, proper, you begin to turn out to be a lady otherwise you turn out to be a person, that’s a time when, as a mom, you need to begin to consider this, although they don’t care, you continue to need to give it some thought, proper? After which in the direction of the top of your life, for girls it’s whenever you undergo the change once more and also you cease with the ability to, you already know, have a child. And for males, I don’t know when males undergo, you already know, that change, somebody ought to inform me, however I’ve three boys, it might be good to know, truly. However these are an important instances so that you can begin fascinated with these items, when these kinds of individuals…you already know when you might have youngsters in the home.

 

Katie: Yeah, and I feel the stability, such as you mentioned is necessary, like keep away from it every time doable, however to not the purpose that it’s inflicting stress, which we additionally know is extraordinarily dangerous to well being. After which from there, I at all times consider, particularly after we’re speaking about chemical compounds, we don’t truly know the best way to get out of the physique. It’s like assist the pure detox pathways in any method doable. After which attempt to hold a balanced stress degree and never be stressing about it past that. So I’m an enormous fan of issues like sauna, simply fundamental hydration, consuming meals like inexperienced leafy greens that bind to extra phytoestrogens and different chemical compounds within the physique.

 

Leah: And poop, proper? As a result of all of the unhealthy stuff comes out whenever you poop, you need to do this, proper? I’m speaking about poop and this, poop and PFAS is hilarious. However we don’t know if it comes…I imply, we simply…you already know, they haven’t completed research on that but. However I feel it’s as a result of they’re so overwhelmed proper now attempting to determine the ins and the outs of all these chemical compounds. You had been saying one thing about plasticizers. Mockingly, it’s additionally a plasticizer. As a result of there’s a complete class referred to as PTFE, which is on these Teflon pans, which is type of like, which is a polymer. And mockingly, you already know, after I do testing, there aren’t any assessments to seek out all of those polymers. So after I’m testing for these chemical compounds, and I’m on the lookout for over 10,000 of them, the type of testing that I’m working is extra of a spot examine. It’s trying to see if these chemical parts are there, it’s not telling you what particular PFAS it’s as a result of it’s not possible. There’s solely about 90 chemical compounds you possibly can take a look at for at a very good industrial lab. Most of those labs which you can take a look at for will solely have the ability to take a look at for perhaps 16 to 30. But it surely’s in a college lab, they will in all probability discover about 150, however that’s it for compound testing and discovering out precisely what it’s.

 

The opposite possibility is what you see a whole lot of NGOs doing and us doing is we search for fluorine in any product, proper? And so then you definately function one other take a look at that pulls out the fluoride from the fluorine, which is the pure and leaves the artifical, and we search for one thing referred to as natural fluorine, which isn’t an exquisite factor. After I say natural when it comes to chemistry, it doesn’t imply the natural requirements. No, it type of means the other, it means man-made. So I’m on the lookout for the man-made fluorine. If you discover that, there’s type of solely two choices. One is PFAS, which it’s very more likely to be, the opposite one is fluorinated prescription drugs as a result of 25% of pharmaceutical merchandise are all fluorinated, so these are the 2 issues that I could possibly be discovering. The testing that I function is a very excessive take a look at. It seems to be at 10 elements per million. Now, although I’m saying elements per million, and that’s actually tiny, it’s truly a bigger quantity as a result of once they’re testing in water, they’re trying all the way in which down within the elements per trillion, which is sort of a drop in three Olympic measurement swimming pools, proper? And so mine can be perhaps a drop in an everyday pool or one thing like that, proper? So we’re taking a look at far bigger, and we’re not trying in water, we’re trying in client merchandise, like private care, something that may be burned, primarily, as a result of that’s how the take a look at is, burns issues, you already know. So if it could possibly’t be burned, we are able to’t use that testing methodology. Then there’s different issues we are able to take a look at.

 

But it surely’s additionally actually tough to seek out, and you already know, the devils within the particulars, in the event you can’t discover it and isolate it, then can they regulate it? I don’t know. In order that’s the place I really feel like I’m type of standing within the center right here. I’m sending a whole lot of merchandise off to the lab and I’m beginning with merchandise that we might buy that will be pure, you already know, sending these off first as a affirmation as a result of my viewers desires to know in regards to the issues that they’re already buying first, after which they need to find out about all the pieces else. And you’d be type of stunned, within the pure trade, how a lot of this chemical we’re going to seek out. There’s a whole lot of causes behind that.

 

One of many causes is, like for example, in the event you’re shopping for natural meals, there’s nothing within the natural requirements to stop them from utilizing FDA-approved components in manufacturing. And so they don’t have any requirements behind that, and I simply confirmed that once more final week as a result of I used to be, you already know, emailing them, I’m like, “Oh, I can’t discover something within the requirements.” And so they’re like, “It’s not there.” And so they’ll say to me one thing like, “Properly, it’s best to, you already know, strain the FDA to take these out of…you already know, as accredited oblique components, as a substitute of coming down on us.” And I’m like, “I feel it’s best to in all probability repair this within the requirements, I simply suppose it’s best to.” However that’s simply my opinion.

 

So it may be in something, primarily. And in the event you check out the FDA web site, on what’s accredited for a meals contact kind of substance, there’s a whole lot of polymers which can be accredited, polymeric PFAS. So meaning these are PFAS chemical compounds which can be made up of all these several types of monomers. So it’s prefer it’s a PFAS fabricated from PFAS, and in addition, nevertheless it turns into like a plastic, proper? So we’re going to see this, in all probability, I’m considering, since there’s so lots of them which can be accredited by the FDA, that’s in all probability what we might in all probability be seeing in meals, you already know, kind of producing. I’ve by no means been in a position to isolate and discover it as a result of these assessments are simply not accessible. However I hold seeing it in all types of merchandise. And I’m actually comfortable to do that testing as a result of not solely do I need to know, however as soon as I began testing, all people else wished to know as effectively. So it’s an incredible service that we’re in a position to present for individuals at Mamavation. I’m actually comfortable to have the ability to do that.

 

Katie: I’m going to go line by line with some widespread merchandise and like, undergo what you discovered on the testing. However earlier than we get into the extra detailed half, I might love to listen to what are among the widespread sources within the house surroundings that some individuals listening…particularly lots of people listening are already extra naturally minded, like your viewers as effectively. What can be among the widespread sources and the way can we begin to keep away from it within the house?

 

Leah: So the primary place goes to be you’re going to eat it and drink it, that’s the place they nonetheless suppose you’re getting the overwhelming majority of that is. Plenty of this might be cookware, so if in case you have Teflon-based cookware or nonstick cookware in any respect, I might keep away from that. Clearly, I do know you’ve bought nice content material about that and I’ve bought content material about that, that had been type of shoving you guys off of nano-based cookware and nonstick cookware. In order that’s one place. You additionally need to search for it in your small kitchen home equipment, as a result of you’ll discover it in issues like air fryers, you’ll discover it in issues like toasters, and it’s not on the meals contact floor, it’s exterior. And the loopy factor about that’s if it’s on the partitions on the skin, if it will get too scorching, it could possibly disperse into that air so it’s nonetheless type of a difficulty. So we’re proper now working by means of these merchandise for air fryers and all types of various issues. I might simply say name up the corporate, look and double-check to guarantee that they’re not including something to those merchandise on the surfaces. Undoubtedly not meals contact, meals contact can be the primary half, however that’s what I search for.

 

Meals packaging is one other challenge, issues that we don’t consider like parchment paper. I discovered it in parchment paper. So there are some parchment papers which can be fabricated from silicone and there’s some parchment papers which can be fabricated from PFAS. And so they, a few of them generally they’ll inform you, however you bought to be trying to see which of them, and simply to type of assist out your individuals proper now as a result of I do know that you simply’re going to ask me which of them are secure. If You Care, we examined that particular model, it’s the brown wrapper that appears type of recycled, that one we didn’t discover something in. One other Finnish firm, which is named Gifbera, after which one other one referred to as Katbite, which I feel is Korean, these are all accessible on Amazon. So If You Care, Gifbera, Katbite, these we examined, and we didn’t discover something, however we did discover it in Reynolds. And we did discover it in Kirkland, so Costco. So these are meals packaging.

 

However right here’s like, a whole lot of instances whenever you’re going to get this in your meals packaging, it’s going to be extra of a difficulty of I went out to eat, or I’m utilizing one thing that’s processed. So the reply is the extra you possibly can prepare dinner from scratch at house, the extra you’re going to have the ability to eliminate these contaminants with out even understanding about it as a result of a whole lot of instances it has to do with the processing of the meals someway, and the way these chemical compounds, be in polymers or no matter, are stepping into all the pieces. So the extra you possibly can prepare dinner by yourself…once more, I feel that’s in all probability one thing that you simply love to listen to, the extra you possibly can prepare dinner utilizing substances that you already know about, the higher off you might be.

 

One other actually huge space is family mud. This isn’t one thing that you’d take into consideration. However you already know, your mud is then analyzed. Your family mud has been analyzed at a lab, not yours particularly, however different individuals’s. And it comprises a whole lot of hearth retardants, phthalates, and PFAS. And that’s coming off of your electrical gear in your home. So your tv in all probability has some PFAS within the wiring, perhaps has it someplace. And when that plastic will get scorching, a whole lot of these plastics have hearth retardants and different kinds of issues inside them. Now, over time, and I imply, over years, because it will get scorching, they type of emit into the air, and these particles are extremely magnetized in the direction of mud. In order that they follow the mud and so they fall, proper?

 

So how do you get this out of your home? I might say simply mud, I hate that reply however that’s actually the reply. The extra you mud, you already know, the cleaner you retain your home, the much less possible your youngsters are going to be uncovered to this. Now, I can’t cease them from like, you already know, being on carpet in case you might have outdated carpeting with PFAS on it, there’s nothing I can do for that different than simply vacuum a ton, you already know, to get that stuff out of it, it can break down over time and be launched. So vacuum as a lot as you possibly can, these kinds of issues. Get an air air purifier, among the greatest air purifiers are on the market. Although I do know those that we suggest are in all probability additionally going to be pulling in PFAS as a result of in the event that they’re pulling within the mud, that’s the place it’s, proper? So that you need to eliminate the mud.

 

Make-up and private care, it is a actually tough challenge. Earlier this 12 months, they did an investigation not me, however the precise scientists, proper? And they also checked out over 300 standard, largely standard make-up merchandise and so they discovered it overwhelmingly in make-up, give it some thought like this, stays longer, waterproof, you already know what I’m saying? You need your make-up to remain in your face and never go anyplace and the extra we’ve demanded that the extra they put in PFAS. So that you need to type of search for issues that don’t have any claims about long-lasting, don’t have any claims about being waterproof.

 

I might say we discovered about six or seven completely different manufacturers of make-up within the pure world that I didn’t discover, you already know, any natural fluorine on the ranges we’re on the lookout for. However most of even the pure magnificence merchandise, you already know, make-up manufacturers, it’s like…like, I used to be taking a look at a whole lot of issues, mascara and lip gloss so to talk as a result of I knew that these are like what everybody’s utilizing on daily basis, proper, lip gloss, after which if it’s basis, it’s like next-level dedication, proper? So we simply went within the first go dedication, and in some manufacturers, we discovered it not of their mascara however discovered of their lip gloss or vice versa. So it was actually tough to type of have the ability to say this model or that model as a result of we needed to do a whole lot of testing to determine that out. So make-up I might say, and different than simply, you already know, following me and what I’m testing there’s no different reply to make-up as a result of nobody’s placing that data on the market. Even the scientists who had been taking a look at it, they’re not likely like granting you the uncooked knowledge to have the ability to determine which one they examined however that’s why we did it.

 

One other factor is like water, look into your water. This can be a actually huge deal as a result of in the event you dwell by a army base otherwise you dwell by an airport that is actually necessary, army bases and airports have been utilizing firefighting foam to place out grease fires which have PFAS in them and it has seeped into the groundwater under and has contaminated a whole lot of groundwater by these bases. So in the event you dwell by an airport otherwise you dwell by a army base, I might simply exit and get a water air purifier regardless, don’t even wait. As a result of the reply is it’s in all probability going to be there and it is probably not a sort of PFAS that we are able to acknowledge simply but. You already know, as a result of that’s the opposite drawback with water is, we aren’t as much as testing in any respect. So I might simply assume, you already know, that that’s how I’m working proper now’s I’m simply assuming, although our water system doesn’t have something in it, it’s like, yeah, you solely examined 16 of them, you already know, there’s like 10,000 on the market, you already know, that’s how I really feel like there’s an enormous gaping gap. So water, work on water.

 

Clothes is one other huge one, however the reply to clothes is we don’t know the reply behind dermal contact. So I’ve a whole lot of advisors who work on this and a few of them are working behind the scenes to growing strategies for testing. A few of them, you already know, they’re working at several types of phases in several types of methods with this chemical. However the one factor that all of them agreed on was we don’t know sufficient about dermal contact. We don’t know if one thing rubs up towards your pores and skin, and it’s a PFAS chemical, will it get in? How will it get in? How a lot we’ll get in? We don’t know.

 

And since we don’t know, we are able to’t make any statements about that. So the reply is we don’t know. However the place are you going to seek out it? Something that’s stain proof, keep away from issues which can be stain proof, completely 100% as a result of that’s the place it’s going to be. It’s in a whole lot of jackets waterproof. We did an investigation on jackets, so in the event you go to Mamavation…I want I might inform you each single one, nevertheless it’s very complicated on the market proper now to seek out out what’s PFAS-free, after which what’s just a bit part of PFAS-free. A few of these corporations which can be producing clothes, aren’t trying on the huge chemical class. They’re solely taking a look at this over right here, and so they say, “We’re freed from PFC.,” however they’re forgetting all this different stuff over right here, you already know.

 

And there’s some certifications like Bluesign, for example. Bluesign licensed is a kind of certifications that can permit sure kinds of PFAS chemical compounds within the certification and but they type of make a declare that they’re PFAS-free. So it’s complicated for the patron and the explanation it’s complicated for the patron is the scientists have simply type of gotten on the identical web page about the place this chemical is and what we’re going to think about as a part of the chemical. So I don’t need to say it’s all the companies’ faults, I’m saying that they’re doing what’s within the regulation, you already know, once they’re making these statements, however the statements are altering as a result of the science is altering. And because the science is altering generally the businesses are two, three years behind, you already know, the mantra, the way it’s described. And so I’m operating into a whole lot of that with jackets, like play couches, play modular couches, you already know, something like that, that may have like a stain-proofing about it. So simply be looking for that.

 

Tents and outside gear. Oh, gosh, I can’t…my cousins in Norway are going to chuckle at me, however there may be one model that we love a lot. And it’s bought a J in it, I’ll put it in your notes, your present notes. It’s like a Swedish identify and I can’t pronounce it as a result of I don’t communicate Swedish. And it’s bought a J in it and I’m gonna simply completely butcher it. However there may be a whole lot of European manufacturers that as a substitute of utilizing PFAS, like on their tents, for example, they use beeswax and paraffin proprietarily put collectively and it does a really comparable or just about the identical factor. These merchandise are extra expensive, you already know, you’re not going to discover a low-cost tent that’s PFAS-free with, you already know, extra pure…and I do know paraffin isn’t pure, however like, you already know, it’s higher than PFAS. These kinds of mixtures which can be much less problematic to the surroundings in a reasonable method but, hopefully the long run will change that.

 

Then additionally, you already know, it’s in automobile wax and surfboard wax, these kinds of issues, and carpet and flooring. We did a bamboo investigation, we checked out a bunch of various bamboo floorings and we solely discovered one which didn’t have detections out of like eight or 9. So I’ve been fascinated with this when it comes to what’s round us. You already know, in the event you’re going to be doing flooring, for example, you already know, we went after bamboo and we appeared particularly at bamboo as a result of why? I’m like, it’s cheaper, it doesn’t dent, you possibly can stroll round together with your heels and so I used to be attempting to love, you already know, remedy all the issues after which we did discover one model. But it surely’s tough. It’s actually tough to keep away from it, you already know, grandstand overarching, eat out much less, mud extra, and prepare dinner from scratch as a lot as you possibly can. These are the three issues that I might say would in all probability do essentially the most bang to your buck and simply look out for locations who…like in the event you go to mamavation.com, we’ve completed an investigation on like a whole lot of issues, not all the pieces but, however on a whole lot of issues. And that’s the…I’m attempting to reply that query, the place is it, how do I keep away from it? And I’m type of going class by class to determine it out as a result of each class is absolutely sophisticated.

 

Katie: Yeah, that jogs my memory, within the labeling, like, we began…such as you mentioned, we’re seeing some which can be labeled as “freed from” sure ones of those, nevertheless it jogs my memory of when BPA turned well-known, after which it was like BPA-free. However these all had BPS or BPAF or different ones, that are as problematic, the place we’re now discovering, in some circumstances, worse. And so simply because there are some that label now doesn’t essentially imply, such as you mentioned, that they’re secure.

 

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And I do know out of your website, you’ve completed investigations into all of those several types of issues. And also you gave us a family overview simply now. However I might like to undergo some others which can be particularly in all probability relevant to mothers. So I cringe to ask, however the first being, what about, like, athletic put on like yoga pants?

 

Leah: So yoga pants wasn’t as unhealthy, truly. In order that was one of many higher ones. We examined about, I feel, 32 or 33, completely different yoga pants, athletic put on as a result of that was a query I had. I’m like yoga pants, you already know what I imply? I put on them actually on daily basis, it’s type of like my outfit, it must be like a uniform. And I do know every day, I’m carrying yoga pants, some shirt that’s actually snug, and my hair is in a very messy bun, I bought a whole lot of hair, so this all goes up in a bun. So we checked out about 32 of them, we discovered 25% of these yoga pants had detectable fluorine within the crotch. Now, after I first began testing them, I used to be testing the knees, you’re not going to seek out it within the knees. How do I do know? I examined to seek out it. After which I believed to myself, the place would I put it? And so I had the lab repeat a few them with the crotch, bam, that’s the place it was. So about 25%. Now, not one of the natural manufacturers, in the event you look in…not one of the natural manufacturers that we had examined, yeah, all of them had non-detect at 10 elements per million, so that’s secure.

 

We did a like a not our favourite, higher, and greatest class of these 32. Those that we discovered detectable there within the high of the what we might not suggest, then there have been ones within the center, which had been artificial supplies so we didn’t discover something in them. So be at liberty to purchase them. After which for these of you who need the natural model that’s in one of the best on the very backside. Yeah, so we tried to type of divide it in three for everybody to have the ability to determine that out as effectively. So this was not as unhealthy, however you’ll discover it within the crotch, which might be…it is likely to be comparable in different pants too if you concentrate on it, prefer it’s going to be within the crotch. Now, I don’t know is the reply to that. I’ll sooner or later, perhaps begin testing underwear and swimsuits and stuff like that, however in the event you…to find out about that, I don’t find out about these but as a result of I’ve been requested that query. So I’m simply going to inform you I don’t find out about some fits and underwear but. However interval underwear, I do know.

 

Katie: Properly, that’s encouraging that there are these good choices accessible as a result of I used to be not going to be prepared to surrender my yoga pants. However that does result in different athletic put on. So let’s discuss sports activities bras after which, because you talked about it, additionally interval underwear.

 

Leah: Yeah, so sports activities bras are fairly problematic. We discovered…so you already know your sports activities bra, there’s just like the outer a part of it after which there’s the interior half. So the interior half is that, like, type of pores and skin coloration mesh that’s subsequent to your bra, which can be subsequent to your breast. We discovered detections in 65% of sports activities bras in that mesh space. And after I advised my advisors about this, a whole lot of them they had been pediatricians that had been, you already know, serving to me evaluate this one particular one, they had been involved and extra of our advisors had been involved as a result of that is the mesh that’s proper up towards your breasts. Now, right here’s the state of affairs I’m considering of as a result of this was my life and nonetheless might be my life. You already know, you’re a brand new mother, proper, and your child goes down for a nap, and so what do you do? You run off and also you do a exercise or one thing like that as greatest as you possibly can and you already know you’ve bought like 40 minutes to an hour, proper? So that you’re figuring out, figuring out, after which sweating up a storm and you bought your sports activities bra on after which, you hear the noise, proper, and also you’re like, “Shoot,” didn’t get the time, so that you didn’t have time for a bathe. So then you definately run upstairs, you go get the infant, and increase, breastfeed. That’s the state of affairs I’m apprehensive about.

 

So in case you are a breastfeeding mom, please watch out and take a look at my investigation for the not our favourite, higher, and greatest. We discovered them in 65% of those merchandise, it was not all the pieces. It was exhausting due to the high-impact bras, there weren’t as many good high-impact bras, however one among them that I did discover that I feel individuals are going to be enthusiastic about is Goal. Goal has truly been doing a whole lot of work on PFAS and textiles and you would inform as a result of after I examined towards that, they got here out clear. So in the event you’re an enormous busted woman, which I’m, my ladies are fairly massive…For those who’re an enormous busted woman you don’t need, like, black eyes whilst you’re figuring out, proper, Goal’s a kind of manufacturers. It’s not natural, clearly, it’s stuffed with artificial polyester and yada, yada, yada, however we didn’t discover detectable PFAS within the sports activities bras there. In order that they’re referred to as All In Movement or one thing like that, in order that was good. And generally I simply hold testing till I discover one thing that I can put on, you already know, and that was a kind of points the place I simply saved testing. That was sports activities bras. In order that’s one you need to look on mamavation.com. For those who go there, we’ve bought all the assessments listed proper there on all of the manufacturers that we discovered.

 

Katie: What about interval underwear? That is after I personally don’t have any expertise with as a result of I’m an enormous fan of the menstrual cup as a substitute for the sustainability, which I do know interval underwear are as effectively, however what did you discover when it got here to those?

 

Leah: It was fairly unhealthy truly after we appeared into interval underwear, we had…I’m attempting to recollect what number of we examined, it was over 20. I feel we solely discovered six manufacturers with out detectable ranges. Yeah, solely six, and the toughest half the place there are some manufacturers that really market themselves as PFAS-free. I’m not gonna say which model it’s however you might have considered trying to have the ability to determine that out, you’ll go on their web site, and they’re going to present you scientific testing on how they will show that they’re PFAS-free. However you must have my eyes to know what you’re taking a look at. You take a look at that scientific research, proper, that they despatched off to the lab, the detection degree is rather a lot larger than mine. So I take a look at at 10 elements per million. They had been testing at 50, so you already know what I imply, like, I can’t make any statements about that. However I might say there’s some humorous enterprise happening in that.

 

And the issue is…I, you already know, interviewed a whole lot of the CEOs that had the safer interval underwear. And primarily what’s taking place is what they mentioned to me is you might have lots of people on this trade that don’t actually have a whole lot of expertise with textiles. Like, they don’t know rather a lot about what they’re doing. They’re nice entrepreneurs, they’re nice, at a whole lot of different issues, however they don’t actually know rather a lot in regards to the processing of textiles. And in the event you don’t know, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to ask, after which she was additionally telling me that, she’s like, you will get Oeko-Tex material, so to talk, and ship it to the producer, after which the producer might be like, “Oh, would you like waterproofing on that?” And so they know that in the event you put that on it destroys all the pieces, like all of the accreditations and all that stuff, however they provide it in any case. And so you already know, in the event you’re somebody who doesn’t perceive the textile trade, chances are you’ll fall into that class.

 

So what I discovered in interval underwear wasn’t ranges that appeared like…there was a number of manufacturers that had ranges that had been actually excessive, proper, I might be like, “Whoa.” However then there have been different manufacturers that had ranges that had been low. And so whenever you take a look at that, it seems to be like extra of a contamination challenge than it seems to be like an deliberately added challenge. However I don’t know what, you already know, the distinction is when it’s proper up by your vagina. I simply don’t know, and no person is aware of. In order that’s why we had been in a position to do the classes we had been and I consider it was…it is likely to be seven now as a result of we hold testing. And we hold including to that report, you already know, every time we do discover one thing, and those who ship me interval underwear need me to check it, simply if you wish to do this I can take a look at stuff, simply hold it in its authentic packaging. I simply don’t need you contaminating it. However yeah, we’ve had group members purchase extra interval underwear that they need, they ship it off to me after which we simply go take a look at it within the lab simply to ensure we all know out of all of the manufacturers that we are able to see. That’s not an excellent one.

 

Katie: Gotcha. I’ll ensure that we hyperlink to those as effectively as a result of I do know you’ve written about all of those and folks can go search for the particular particulars. So for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm could have all these hyperlinks. One other related one for mothers, what about ketchup? As a result of I do know for lots of youngsters, it is a favourite so as to add to a whole lot of stuff. So what about ketchup?

 

Leah: Ketchup was simply heartbreaking. Ketchup, the overwhelming majority of the ketchups that I examined, all had complete fluorine in it. Now, I wished to elucidate to all people that I did complete fluorine assessments on the overwhelming majority of those ketchup manufacturers. I didn’t do natural fluorine, however let me inform you type of what I’ve been doing. I’ve despatched about 350 issues off to the lab over the past 2 years, a whole lot of testing. So that offers you an concept of how a lot testing I’ve completed. And I might say 80% of that testing, we’ve completed natural fluorine on. And after I first began, I did complete fluorine. So I wasn’t as savvy as I’m now to know in regards to the distinction between the pure fluorine and the natural fluorine, which is artificial, and also you wanted to separate that. And so, you already know, my scientific advisors got here in and helped me with that after which we began, so ketchup is an older one.

 

However we discovered a ton of complete fluorine in ketchup, besides for 2 manufacturers. We didn’t discover it in Heinz, and that shocked me. So I used to be like, right here’s the common Heinz within the glass bottle, nothing, within the plastic bottle, nothing, within the little ketchup packets, nothing. We didn’t discover it, you already know, in any Heinz product. After which we didn’t discover it in 365 Entire Meals Natural Ketchup. So it made me suppose that that is likely to be white-labeled, perhaps white-labeled Heinz ketchup, are you aware what I’m saying? However then each different ketchup that we examined, we discovered detectable ranges, and a whole lot of them had been actually near 10. So it was like they had been proper there, proper?

 

So right here’s the reply to that, of all the issues that I’ve despatched off to the lab, they’ve been ready…and so they do complete fluorine on all the pieces, however then we run one other take a look at and it’s a take a look at for fluoride, proper? And what they do is that they search for fluoride after which they’re in a position to do a calculation to deduct the whole fluorine quantity from the fluoride quantity, and that’s natural fluorine, so that they do this calculation for you. I’ve by no means seen, not doable, however I’ve simply by no means seen fluoride, greater than two, perhaps three elements per million. You already know, so a whole lot of manufacturers will need to say, in the event that they need to say it’s complete fluorine, I’ve not discovered that, you already know, fluoride to be an enormous factor and something, you already know, I feel they need to suppose that it’s nevertheless it’s within the stuff that I’ve examined, we’ve not. I did ship two of these manufacturers as a result of two manufacturers individuals had been actually, actually…they actually wished to find out about.

 

And that was Primal and Annie’s. And I despatched Annie’s and Primal out for natural fluorine testing after we put this up, and so they had been just about the identical quantity. So I feel that we’re discovering a whole lot of indications. That’s the one the place I’ve to say learn it, however perceive the testing isn’t full. And I do plan on updating that specific investigation, including extra manufacturers, and doing the entire shebang, it’s simply in all probability not going to be till subsequent 12 months someday, proper? And I need to give these manufacturers a while to work on it. So I do know a whole lot of them do find out about my testing and whether or not…I don’t know in the event that they’re making any strikes, as a result of they haven’t come to me and mentioned they’re making any strikes. In order that’s unlucky, however I’ll say in different manufacturers…or different industries, there’s manufacturers making some fairly hefty strikes right here.

 

Katie: So, to be continued, and I’ll put hyperlinks to the present ones so individuals can have these as a place to begin. And I do know that there’s extra to return in different classes as effectively. So individuals can keep updated with you to maintain a watch out for that. It additionally makes me curious if it’s doable to get individuals examined for these compounds. And I additionally marvel like, is there even a…in the event you’re going to weigh the danger and advantages, is it even value doing? We don’t know the best way to get them out of the physique and we all know it’s good to keep away from them. Like, is it value testing if it’s even doable? Or is it higher simply to know they’re unhealthy and keep away from them?

 

Leah: So I want I might have completed that after I didn’t end that query for you. I’ve a take a look at downstairs, there’s a model new take a look at that got here out. I feel it’s referred to as Empower FX. So I’m going to need to double examine on that. However there’s a model new take a look at the place you possibly can prick your finger and ship it to a lab. Now, it is a huge large deal as a result of it’s not costly and it’s accessible to all people. So let me offer you some background. So I wished to do a physique burden, you already know, scientific research. And I had a whole lot of scientists concerned and we type of talked about it. And what we realized was, it was near not possible to do that as a result of your physique doesn’t launch it. So, you already know, it’s not like with polyphenols and, you already know, you wait per week later and also you simply don’t eat them or put them into your physique, they’ll be much less. That’s not the case of PFAS. So it’s actually exhausting to check in your physique, actually, actually tough to do these comparisons, so we ended up not doing it.

 

At that time, we had been trying right into a lab that was about $1,000 a take a look at. Oh, yeah, loopy. So I’ll inform you my pleasure when I discovered a model who’s doing this for $250. And also you’re doing it at house. What we had been going to look into was sending individuals to a draw lab after which sending it off to a lab in Canada. And prefer it was all of this, you already know, strategic, loopy stuff that we needed to do. However now there’s a firm, and I need to say Empower FX, and we’ll hyperlink that down under. However they partnered with Eurofins and Eurofins is a humongous $6 billion lab world wide. So it’s a very…that’s an incredible partnership. And so Eurofins is the companion on this and so they’re producing these little take a look at kits. So you possibly can take a look at your self, it’s just a little drip of blood, ship it off, and I consider they’re testing for between 16 to 30 completely different PFAS, however the most typical ones that you simply’re going to seek out in water.

 

Katie: Good to know, I’ll put hyperlinks to that as effectively if it’s in your website, or I’ll get that information from you for people who find themselves…

 

Leah: It’s not but.

 

Katie: Okay.

 

Leah: You’ve bought it first.

 

Katie: How thrilling. And as I anticipated, our time, in fact, flew by as a result of we at all times have such enjoyable conversations.

 

Leah: How has it been 45 minutes? Oh my gosh.

 

Katie: So we’ll simply need to do extra rounds of this as increasingly more investigations come out. However simply on the finish, I like to ask if there’s any parting recommendation you need to give to our listeners in the present day, could possibly be associated to this or one thing completely unrelated to all of the mothers listening?

 

Leah: Oh, you already know, when it comes to these things, I might say don’t sweat the small stuff, proper? I imply, I’ve been doing toxic-free for seven years now, perhaps eight. And that’s one of many issues that I’ve realized, you already know, I need to know what absolutely the worst issues are and I’ll keep away from these. And all the different issues, I’ll primarily based on my emotional wants at that second, proper? And so, when it comes to like, whenever you’re fascinated with issues, don’t freak out about one thing you employ as soon as a month, proper? What you need to take a look at are the large dailies, proper, day by day exposures. So don’t sweat the small stuff when it comes to, you already know, don’t freak out over some factor that you simply’re going to be consuming, you already know, or consuming as soon as a month. So go off to your good friend’s home, eat the pizza, and drink, and the cake and, you already know, take pleasure in your self. As a result of the stress which you can placed on individuals primarily based on being afraid of all these things, I feel, could be worse on you total than I feel the precise chemical compounds themselves and that’s what I’ve realized over time.

 

And so defend your house, defend your soul, so to talk, from being too afraid. I feel that there’s a distinction between having a wholesome concern of one thing that’s harmful, you already know what I’m saying, and avoiding that since you’re sensible. And likewise stepping into the world of it’d being like a disordered considering course of, you already know, the disordered considering strategy of all the pieces is poisonous isn’t an excellent place so that you can be. I would like you to take pleasure in your life. And you already know, comply with individuals like Katie and I for, you already know, directions on what to do after which simply let it go. You already know, that’s my recommendation is, you already know, management what you bought within the house, exit and discover the world and luxuriate in your self, and check out to not let your craziness sink into different locations is my greatest recommendation.

 

After which simply, you already know, attempt to keep abreast of this, however you already know, that is a kind of points the place individuals are not likely contacting their elected officers about this. And I do know there’s lots of people particularly in like Republican districts and stuff like that, they’re not listening to sufficient from you, as a result of they’d be doing extra in the event that they heard from you. And I actually really feel like for lots of ladies who’re residing in Republic, congressional districts and stuff like that, name them, allow them to know you’re involved about this. Allow them to know that you simply care, and also you care about them, are you aware what I’m saying? For those who’re voting for them, and that is your challenge, guarantee that they know that that is necessary to them. As a result of I used to work for elected officers a few years in the past and I’ll say that when the ladies begin calling up, and once they begin pushing and honking on the doorways, they bought their little strollers and stuff, you already know you’re in hassle. It’s the senior residents and the mothers and also you don’t need to piss off both of these teams. However you already know, that is simply one thing that your elected officers want to listen to extra from you on as a result of there’s a whole lot of states and after I say rather a lot, I imply a whole lot of states proper now which can be contemplating like 200 items of laws on PFAS. They should hear from you.

 

Katie: Yeah, I’ve mentioned that so many instances on this podcast that mothers are such a drive of nature and that widespread coverage occurs when the typical mother adjustments her thoughts and will get concerned and that’s on so many various ranges. And I’ve seen it on a neighborhood degree. Truly, the place I used to dwell, it was attention-grabbing, on this state, homebirth was technically not authorized for some time, and a bunch of mothers I do know lobbied and bought it modified. However I feel it doesn’t need to be…I feel we frequently don’t do it as a result of we expect it must be this large quantity, this large groundswell, it truly doesn’t as a result of I additionally used to web page for representatives and it doesn’t take that many calls and letters earlier than they listen. So I might say don’t underestimate…particularly on stuff like this that pertains to our youngsters, don’t underestimate your energy to alter that. And likewise to echo your different recommendation, be careful for what you possibly can but additionally notice the physique is good and adaptable and designed to heal and keep away from the worst of the worst, however don’t let it rule your life or turn out to be anxious. And that applies to meals, that applies to what we work together with in our day by day lives, and provides your self some grace on the finish of the day too.

 

Leah: Love you, woman. You’re so nice at summarizing my level.

 

Katie: Proper again at you, and thanks for the time in the present day. It’s at all times, in fact, so enjoyable to get to talk with you. Like I mentioned, we’ll do it once more as increasingly more information turns into accessible. However thanks for being right here.

 

Leah: After all. It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Katie.

 

Katie: And thanks, as at all times, to all of you for listening and sharing your most useful sources, your time, your vitality and your consideration with us in the present day. We’re each so grateful that you simply did and I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the subsequent episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

 

For those who’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a ranking or evaluate on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra individuals to seek out the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the data. I actually recognize your time, and thanks as at all times for listening.



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